Best of the Week
Most Popular
1. US Housing Market Real Estate Crash The Next Shoe To Drop – Part II - Chris_Vermeulen
2.The Coronavirus Greatest Economic Depression in History? - Nadeem_Walayat
3.US Real Estate Housing Market Crash Is The Next Shoe To Drop - Chris_Vermeulen
4.Coronavirus Stock Market Trend Implications and AI Mega-trend Stocks Buying Levels - Nadeem_Walayat
5. Are Coronavirus Death Statistics Exaggerated? Worse than Seasonal Flu or Not?- Nadeem_Walayat
6.Coronavirus Stock Market Trend Implications, Global Recession and AI Stocks Buying Levels - Nadeem_Walayat
7.US Fourth Turning Accelerating Towards Debt Climax - James_Quinn
8.Dow Stock Market Trend Analysis and Forecast - Nadeem_Walayat
9.Britain's FAKE Coronavirus Death Statistics Exposed - Nadeem_Walayat
10.Commodity Markets Crash Catastrophe Charts - Rambus_Chartology
Last 7 days
Precious Metals Warn Of Increased Volatility Ahead - 2nd Aug 20
The Key USDX Sign for Gold and Silver - 2nd Aug 20
Corona Crisis Will Have Lasting Impact on Gold Market - 2nd Aug 20
Gold & Silver: Two Pictures - 1st Aug 20
The Bullish Case for Stocks Isn't Over Yet - 1st Aug 20
Is Gold Price Action Warning Of Imminent Monetary Collapse - Part 2? - 1st Aug 20
Will America Accept the World's Worst Pandemic Response Government - 1st Aug 20
Stock Market Technical Patterns, Future Expectations and More – Part II - 1st Aug 20
Trump White House Accelerating Toward a US Dollar Crisis - 31st Jul 20
Why US Commercial Real Estate is Set to Get Slammed - 31st Jul 20
Gold Price Blows Through Upside Resistance - The Chase Is On - 31st Jul 20
Is Crude Oil Price Setting Up for a Waterfall Decline? - 31st Jul 20
Stock Market Technical Patterns, Future Expectations and More - 30th Jul 20
Why Big Money Is Already Pouring Into Edge Computing Tech Stocks - 30th Jul 20
Economic and Geopolitical Worries Fuel Gold’s Rally - 30th Jul 20
How to Finance an Investment Property - 30th Jul 20
I Hate Banks - Including Goldman Sachs - 29th Jul 20
NASDAQ Stock Market Double Top & Price Channels Suggest Pending Price Correction - 29th Jul 20
Silver Price Surge Leaves Naysayers in the Dust - 29th Jul 20
UK Supermarket Covid-19 Shop - Few Masks, Lack of Social Distancing (Tesco) - 29th Jul 20
Budgie Clipped Wings, How Long Before it Can Fly Again? - 29th Jul 20
How To Take Advantage Of Tesla's 400% Stock Surge - 29th Jul 20
Gold Makes Record High and Targets $6,000 in New Bull Cycle - 28th Jul 20
Gold Strong Signal For A Secular Bull Market - 28th Jul 20
Anatomy of a Gold and Silver Precious Metals Bull Market - 28th Jul 20
Shopify Is Seizing an $80 Billion Pot of Gold - 28th Jul 20
Stock Market Minor Correction Underway - 28th Jul 20
Why College Is Never Coming Back - 27th Jul 20
Stocks Disconnect from Economy, Gold Responds - 27th Jul 20
Silver Begins Big Upside Rally Attempt - 27th Jul 20
The Gold and Silver Markets Have Changed… What About You? - 27th Jul 20
Google, Apple And Amazon Are Leading A $30 Trillion Assault On Wall Street - 27th Jul 20
This Stock Market Indicator Reaches "Lowest Level in Nearly 20 Years" - 26th Jul 20
New Wave of Economic Stimulus Lifts Gold Price - 26th Jul 20
Stock Market Slow Grind Higher Above the Early June Stock Highs - 26th Jul 20
How High Will Silver Go? - 25th Jul 20
If You Own Gold, Look Out Below - 25th Jul 20
Crude Oil and Energy Sets Up Near Major Resistance – Breakdown Pending - 25th Jul 20
FREE Access to Premium Market Forecasts by Elliott Wave International - 25th Jul 20
The Promise of Silver as August Approaches: Accumulation and Conversation - 25th Jul 20
The Silver Bull Gateway is at Hand - 24th Jul 20
The Prospects of S&P 500 Above the Early June Highs - 24th Jul 20
How Silver Could Surpass Its All-Time High - 24th Jul 20
China Recovered in Q2. Will the Red Dragon Sink Gold? - 23rd Jul 20
UK Covid19 MOT 6 Month Extensions Still Working Late July 2020? - 23rd Jul 20
How Did the Takeaway Apps Stocks Perform During the Lockdown? - 23rd Jul 20
US Stock Market Stalls Near A Double Peak - 23rd Jul 20
Parking at Lands End Car Park Cornwall - UK Holidays 2020 - 23rd Jul 20
Translating the Gold Index Signal into Gold Target - 23rd Jul 20
Weakness in commodity prices suggests a slowing economy - 23rd Jul 20
This Stock Market Stinks - But Not Why You May Think - 22nd Jul 20
Protracted G7 Economic Contraction – or Multiyear Global Depression - 22nd Jul 20
Gold and Oil: Be Aware of the "Spike" - 22nd Jul 20
US Online Casino Demographics: Who Plays Online For Money? - 22nd Jul 20
Machine Intelligence Quantum AI Stocks Mega-Trend Forecast 2020 to 2035! - 21st Jul 20
How to benefit from the big US Infrastructure push - 21st Jul 20
Gold and gold mining stocks are entering a strong seasonal phase - 21st Jul 20
Silver Eyes Key Breakout Levels as Inflation Heats Up - 21st Jul 20
Gold During Coronavirus Recession and Beyond - 21st Jul 20
US Election 2020: ‘A Major Bear Market of Political Decency’ - 21st Jul 20
Summertime Sizzle for Gold and Silver - 21st Jul 20
Overclockers UK Custom Built PC Review - Delivery and Unboxing (3) - 21st Jul 20
Will Coronavirus Vaccines Become a Bridge to Nowhere? - 20th Jul 20
Stock Market Time for Caution?  - 20th Jul 20
ClickTrades Review - The Importance of Dynamic Analysis and Educational Tools in Online Trading - 20th Jul 20
US Housing Market Collapse Second Phase Pending - 20th Jul 20
Capitalising on the AI Mega-trend - 20th Jul 20
Getting Started with Machine Learning - 20th Jul 20
Why Moores Law is NOT Dead! - 20th Jul 20
Help the Economy by Going Outside - 19th Jul 20
Stock Market Fantasy Finance: Follow the Money - 19th Jul 20
Did the Stock Market Bubble Just Pop? - 19th Jul 20
Quick Souring of the S&P 500 Stock Market Mood - 19th Jul 20
The Six-Year Jobs Recession - 19th Jul 20
Silver Demand Exploding! - 18th Jul 20
Tesco Scraps Covid Safe One Way Arrow Supermarket Shopping System - 18th Jul 20
The Rise of Online Pawnbroking - 17th Jul 20
Gold Rallies Together With U.S. Covid-19 Cases - 17th Jul 20
Gold & Silver Measured Moves - 17th Jul 20
The Bizarre Mathematics Of How Negative Interest Rates Create Stratospheric Profits - 17th Jul 20
From a Stocks Bull Market Far, Far Away, Virus Doomsday Scenerio! - 16th Jul 20
Fiscal Cliffs and the Self-destructing Treasury - 16th Jul 20
Dow Stock Market Crash Watch - Update - 16th Jul 20
Gold & Silver Gaining on US Dollar Weakness - 16th Jul 20
How to Find the Best Stocks to Invest In - 16th Jul 20
Overclockers UK Custom Build PC Review - 2. System Build Changes Communications - 16th Jul 20

Market Oracle FREE Newsletter

How to Get Rich Investing in Stocks by Riding the Electron Wave

Mike Shedlock, Mish Should Ditch His Deflation Fears

Economics / Deflation Jul 13, 2009 - 12:52 PM GMT

By: MISES

Economics

Best Financial Markets Analysis ArticleRobert P. Murphy writes: We who are advocates of sound, free-market money need to get our story straight. Are we predicting hyperinflation or massive deflation? Personally, I am much more worried about the former problem. Using a recent article by Mish, I hope to show that no one has made a convincing case for falling prices.


Mish's Argument for Deflation

"Mish" is a very popular blogger on financial and economic affairs. His nickname is a melding of the first two letters of his two real names, Mike Shedlock. (My own friends called me "Romu" for a brief spell, but it didn't catch on.) For some time Mish has been criticizing those warning about impending inflation, and in a recent post he summed up his position quite well.

Mish was responding to Gary North, who had written, "The Federal Reserve can re-ignite monetary inflation at any time by charging banks a fee to keep excess reserves with the FED."

Mish took issue with North's claim:

Gary's hypothesis … is just that, a hypothesis, and I believe a very poor one at that.

Bernanke's idea to pay interest on reserves will slowly recapitalize banks over time. This is why he desperately wanted to do so. To suggest he is about to charge interest on deposits is silly.

The key fact now is there are not enough credit worthy customers for banks to want to lend, or for that matter willing borrowers looking to expand debt. Thus, if banks had to pay interest on reserves, rather than causing mass inflation, the Fed would cause mass panic.

I humbly submit that we have no idea what Bernanke is going to do next. Well, okay, we have some idea; Bernanke obviously isn't going to call for the abolition of the Fed. But beyond that, it's anybody's guess. There are many economists who think Bernanke's decision to start paying interest on reserves was a horrible blunder. In any event, Mish is simply assuming that the Fed officials don't want to "cause mass panic," when an open-minded reading of history makes me wonder.

Let's not get bogged down on the issue of Fed payment of interest. Here is the crux of Mish's approach to inflation:

[Some] inflationists look at consumers prices, some look at commodity prices, still others look at the price of gold as a measure of inflation. Of those watching money supply, some concentrate on Base Money supply as Gary North does, others M2, M3, MZM, or even Austrian Money Supply as a measure of inflation…

Every one of them is wrong.

We have a credit based economy and anyone watching money supply and not watching credit is simply wrong. This is a statement of fact, not idle conjecture. Only those watching and expecting the collapse in credit and understanding the role of gold got things correct. This is a very small group of people.

Is Credit Part of the Money Supply?

Although every writer has his or her own nuances, I think it's safe to generalize and say that the people calling for a "debt deflation" are assuming that the availability of credit acts as "virtual money," and causes prices to be higher than they otherwise would be. Some writers in this camp seem to think that we should just lump someone's credit line in with his bank balance and currency on hand, in order to come up with how much "purchasing power" he has at his command.

Strictly speaking, that isn't correct. For simplicity, picture an economy that has no credit system, and where physical gold serves as the commodity money. We start out in an initial equilibrium where the public collectively holds, say, 100 million ounces of gold as cash holdings. Prices of goods and services are quoted in weights of gold, and this vector of prices determines the "purchasing power" of an ounce of gold. Because we're in equilibrium, everyone is happy holding his portion of the 100 million ounces.

Now suppose in this scenario, a budding entrepreneur gets the bright idea to form Rothbard Express, the first-ever credit card company. That is, Rothbard hands out plastic cards with his logo on them, and merchants agree to accept payment with use of such a card, rather than with actual gold coins. What will be the effect on prices?

At first blush, it seems as if the new business will push up prices. After all, people can now chase goods with not only 100 million ounces of gold, but also with the sum total of their credit lines as extended by Rothbard. In the new equilibrium, wouldn't prices be higher because of the extra spending?

Actually, it's not at all obvious that the new credit card system would push up prices, because credit cards don't create new money. When Jim swipes his Rothbard card to buy a suit at a price of one gold ounce, the merchant still gets paid in gold. What happens is that Rothbard Express makes a short-term loan of one ounce of gold to Jim, who then spends it on the suit.

After the transaction clears, the tailor has one additional ounce of gold, Rothbard Express has one fewer ounce of gold, and Jim has the same amount of gold. On top of that, Jim's outstanding debt to Rothbard Express has increased by one ounce of gold, while on Rothbard Express's books, the claim on Jim has increased by one ounce of gold.

Breaking down the credit transaction into its components, it's not obvious why there should be upward pressure on prices. Yes, Jim can buy a suit that he otherwise could not have afforded; this makes suit prices higher (today) than they would otherwise be. But in order to finance Jim, Rothbard the entrepreneur may have deferred a purchase of a computer that he otherwise would have made, making computer prices lower today. In general, there is no reason to suppose the net effect would be rising prices.

Supply and Demand for Money

Rather than staring at an individual credit transaction, maybe we'll gain more insight from looking at the big picture. The new company Rothbard Express hasn't increased the physical supply of gold; the community still has 100 million ounces, just as before. So the question boils down to this: do people want to hold the same amount of purchasing power in their cash holdings, as before?

Again, at first the answer seems to favor (price) inflation. Because each consumer now carries around a plastic card giving him the ability to command (say) up to three ounces of gold on the spot, he's probably going to reduce the amount of physical cash he carries on him, or that he leaves in a checking account. The size of his stockpile for "emergencies" can safely be reduced, since he now has an extra cushion due to his credit line from Rothbard Express.

If this pattern held for everyone in the community, then the result would clearly be rising prices. No matter what, the total cash holdings of the community must equal 100 million ounces. If everybody wants to cut back on his cash holdings, the only way to accomplish this is through rising prices. To put it crudely, if everyone wants to hold half as much cash, then a doubling of prices will restore equilibrium.

Recall that it's not the actual weight of gold that people care about, but rather its purchasing power. For example someone might put "three weeks of groceries" in gold in the house safe. When food prices go up, this objective requires more physical gold.

However, we can't yet conclude that the introduction of credit cards will lead to lower desired cash holdings, and hence to higher prices. This is because Rothbard the credit card entrepreneur must greatly increase his cash holdings. In order for merchants to let customers buy their wares at par using a credit card, Rothbard must build up an impeccable record of settlement of charges. In order to do that, he naturally must accumulate a large stockpile of physical gold before he starts issuing plastic cards.

My guess is that, on balance, the expansion of Rothbard's cash holdings would only partially offset the reduction of the rest of the community's cash holdings. In other words, I think the overall market demand to hold cash would fall. (Rothbard's demand increases, but the rest of the community's demand decreases by a greater amount.) With falling demand and a fixed supply, the "price" of gold would go down, meaning its purchasing power would drop. That's just another way of saying that prices of goods and services, quoted in ounces of gold, would rise.

Having made that concession, I still don't see why the bursting of the housing bubble will lead to mass price deflation. If American households are trying to pay down their credit card debts, that's not the same thing as taking away their option to charge a true "emergency" purchase, which most households can still do. It's true, households did in fact expand their cash holdings in 2008, but I think their actions were more attributable to the general uncertainty of the future, than to the tightening of credit standards.

If a household spends $500 a month less on dining out, in order to pay down credit card balances, that is not automatically $500 less in "total spending" in the economy. We have to inquire further to see what the credit card company does with the $500 extra in monthly payments it now receives. The mere fact that (some) households are trying to pay down debts doesn't guarantee price deflation.

Stocks and Bonds Have Prices, Too

As the considerations above should indicate, it is not self-evident that a bursting credit bubble will lead to price deflation. But perhaps I have left out a crucial piece of the analysis. Maybe in the real world, credit card companies act as quasi fractional-reserve bankers, because merchants do not insist on immediate payment in actual money. Just as bank runs (in a fractional-reserve system) could collapse the money supply and hence prices back in the early 1930s, maybe in today's economy a widespread "pulling out of credit" could have similar effects.

This seems to be the deflationist argument, but I have never seen it spelled out carefully. It might be right, but no one has yet convinced me.

In any event, I offer the following observation: Suppose it's true that "velocity" will fall (a favorite deflationist claim), meaning that the average dollar bill turns over fewer times per year and so can support a lower level of prices. Still, what if the specific prices that take the brunt of the fall, are associated with corporate stock and US Treasury bonds? It's entirely possible that "general US prices" fall according to some measure, while the prices of milk, eggs, and gasoline rise.

Whatever happens to the absolute levels of various prices, certainly the relative prices of hard commodities and staples will rise, compared to the prices of mortgage-backed securities and commercial paper issued by a coal-based utility company. Even if the "debt deflation" scenario is generally right, the absolute effect could be swamped by the relative effects, meaning that retirees on fixed dollar incomes could still get wiped out when their standard monthly expenses rise. The deflationists like Mish might be right, but they need to make a much stronger case.

Robert Murphy, an adjunct scholar of the Mises Institute and a faculty member of the Mises University, runs the blog Free Advice and is the author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism, the Study Guide to Man, Economy, and State with Power and Market, the Human Action Study Guide, and The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal. Send him mail. See his article archives. Comment on the blog.


© 2005-2019 http://www.MarketOracle.co.uk - The Market Oracle is a FREE Daily Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting online publication.


Comments

daddysteve
13 Jul 09, 16:24
the problem

As Mish points out, the staggering amount of bad bets on the banks books (trillions and trillions of derivatives) will swamp anything the Fed can print up. Hence the need to suspend "mark to market" accounting. Yipee! Now we're all profitable.


National Deflation Association
13 Jul 09, 18:56
You are so distorting and twisting Mish's arguments

When you go buy a house with a mortgage from your bank that cuts you a check that you take for closing, that mortgage is money, unless you come to your closing with a suitcase full of cash. $10.5 Trillion worth of this credit money in the form of mortgage was used to buy lots of houses.

Builders were payed with those checks and deposited them into their bank accounts. Now you look at a family that uses $500 to pay down its debt instead of consuming, that is debt is reduced by $500 and when you deal with today's reality the credit card company is not turning around and lending that money to another family, credit card companies are cutting credit lines. So we are in deflation.

Mish is right because he deals with reality as it is, while you come up with fantasy land examples while ignoring a lot of inputs into your equation. Ask yourself a simple question. If inflation was so easy to reignite, what is the FED waiting for. If it was so easy to do, we would be in a permanent state of boom, so would be Japan. Yet we are not and the FED seems to be unable to reinflate.

You may find a lot of useful explanations on the National Deflation Association website - http://ndainfo.wordpress.com/


Mike
13 Jul 09, 19:47
Money Creation & Destruction

You really do need to study a bit more.

It amazes me how many so called economists or those purporting to be in the know, "still" do not know that the act of paying down loans actually destroys the money.

This money used to repay the loan does not just go into a safe.

Thus the money supply is contracting at a phenomenal rate whilst new loans are not being made and the existing loans are being payed down.

For your benefit, i will post a link to wikapeadia which also explains this bizarre mechanism of the current financial system.

A quote from the link to wikapeadia:

"When a loan is supplied with central bank money, new commercial bank money is created. As a loan is paid back, the commercial bank money disappears from existence".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

Of course we are going to go though an deflationary period.


Rob
14 Jul 09, 16:51
inflation/deflation

I think you all miss the real issue regarding future flation and that is the U.S.dollar. If the dollar sinks we swill have inflation if it rises then deflation. so if yuo believe the dollar will rise then you can claim deflation is coming. But if you think the dollar wil fall bvecause the world has enough of them and the U.S. wants to force more omn them either by printing or borrowing and then all those dollars that are being held in CB and under mattresses will go into tangible items like commodities businesses even real estate resulting in serious inflation for the U.S. If the $ were not the reserve currency it is we would already have experienced zimbabwe style inflation.

Another thing to take into account is that the fed has compartmentalized money supply growth into specific areas such as assets and away from wages and while that kept price levels under control the reverse is now occurring so that asset prices are decreasing untiul the economy and govt. can no longer service it's debts then what will happen? will we default or print? You make the choice because your future depends on that choice.

Good luck


murray
16 Jun 10, 03:33
mish smish

Mish gets a lot of things wrong but that’s part of the game of web popularity

consider just how wacko Allan Jones is yet he racks up the hits – so it’s got little to do with right or wrong

Mish might be (i say might) a good analyst but he’s no demographer – he looks at charts that are easy to analyse and form an opinion on but he does not do deep analysis of the mass movements of people – hence his continuous rant about Chinese property prices – here we are witnessing a once in a millennium movement of people from rural to urban life and the consequent property price movements are a “bubble”

he makes the same mistake with those countries that have very high net immigration such as Australia. He sees only the easy to see numbers and fails to dig even a little into the facts simply because he is a pig-headed arrogant Allan Jones clone albeit with a more acceptable visage

but get this when i listen to the Allan Jones ranters (and there are frighteningly more than i like) they are all now followers of Mish.

And Mish loves it.

Watch how Mish publishes when things are looking good in the world he runs off at a local level tangent to keep the “oh my good we are all doomed” tone running

as soon as the markets look a little jittery he’s selling “oh my god we are all doomed” in a big way so that he always looks right and it’s not an issue of right or wrong in the end we are all dead

so what?

keep reading Mish and you’ll suddenly realize one day he’s just as full of $&IT as any other wacko

yes he has been very entertaining at times and early on he was almost uniquely lucid

but now?

murray


Post Comment

Only logged in users are allowed to post comments. Register/ Log in

6 Critical Money Making Rules